Ina Garten on Good Hang with Amy Poehler

Well, hello everyone. I'm very excited

uh for this episode of Good Hang. I'm

Amy Polar and joining me today is aa

Garden. Aa is just a delight and we are

going to talk about so many fun things.

We're going to talk about her TV show

podcast, Be My Guest. Um we're going to

talk about um uh the best way to cook

carrots. We're going to talk about

enriched uranium. and she arrives with

the best gift I've received yet and the

first gift I've received. So, um, can't

wait to show you that. Um, but before we

get started, we always like to talk to

somebody who knows our guest and has a

question for them. And we have a real

humdinger on this one. I mean, just a

comedic genius, everybody's fave. I

mean, what hasn't she done? ammies, TV,

movies, just a a a social activist.

She's in her garden. She's protecting

herself from the sun. She's wearing a

giant hat. Her name is Julia Louie

Drifus. JLD.

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What do you [music] say?

>> Your hat looks great.

>> Well, [laughter]

[laughter]

I don't know what else to do.

>> I mean, look, at this point, we should

hats, whatever. Scarves, whatever.

>> Yes, scarves. Hats.

Oh my god, you're the best for getting

on and doing this. Hi, friend.

>> Hi, my friend. I'm so happy to see you.

>> I'm so happy to see you, too. And I was

just thinking about the last time we saw

each other, which was um

>> getting our hair colored.

>> Yeah. At the salon.

At the salon

>> where all the ladies go to meet. Are you

in California or

>> I'm in California. I'm in Santa Barbara,

California.

Hence this hat.

>> It is a very California hat. It is

actually. [laughter]

But I I I do in fact, this isn't

I actually do wear this hat

all the time because I'm conscious of

getting too much sun.

>> You know what I was just saying? I I was

just telling someone that my

dermatologist told me like ab no more

sun. Like you're done with sun. The end.

Period.

>> Yeah. And are you listening to your

dermatologist? I'm finally I'm sadly I

knew I've known this for many years, but

I need to talk to you about and and all

the women listening about full sun

shirts.

>> I know everything. Oh,

>> I can't wait. I knew you would. I knew

you would.

>> I have so [laughter] much information

for you.

>> First of all, get this hat.

>> Number one,

>> I knew you would. And I so appreciate it

because first of all, babe, you look

incredible. Well,

>> nobody looks better than

>> all the filters that are on this

computer. [laughter] Thank you as well.

>> You at one point you should do that Zoom

thing where you just get you put

sunglasses on yourself and then you turn

into a cat and then the background turns

into a beach.

>> I wish I knew how to do that. [laughter]

>> Um, well, we're talking to aa garden

today.

>> Lucky you.

>> And you know what? Before I even get

into that, congratulations on your

podcast. And

>> congratulations on your podcast.

[snorts] Thank you. [laughter]

Thank you.

Thank you. Just two ladies having a

podcast.

>> Welcome to Show Biz.

>> Um, where did you first meet AA?

>> On the podcast.

>> Wow. You became pod. You became friends

after the pod.

>> Correct. Like real proper friends.

>> Oh, cool. How did that happen?

>> I don't know. I just feel like she's

Have you ever met her? No, never met

her.

>> Oh, well, you're going to just have the

best conversation because she's as she's

exactly what you think. She's completely

authentic. She's

very kind. She's obviously very

intelligent. She's hilarious.

She's just got a great attitude. She's

incredibly cheerful. FYI, that's a

question you need to ask her,

>> okay?

>> Why are you so cheerful?

>> And say it that aggressively.

>> I mean, I actually mean that. I don't

mean it sarcastically, although it

sounded it, but I mean like seriously,

why are you so cheerful? And also, what

puts you in a bad mood? I'd like to know

what really puts a in a bad mood. It's

it's so interesting you say that because

like in doing research on her and and

you know like she has this

uh you know

she talks about it in her book like a

decision she makes to decide to enjoy

life.

She just like kind of you know a lot of

it is meeting Jeffrey

>> a lot.

>> Yeah. and him saying, you know, I'm

going to give you a safe container in

which to decide, you know, what kind of

life you want to live and we're going to

find joy in our lives. But she really

seems like she's the kind of person that

made a decision and makes a decision

every day.

>> Yeah, I think she does. She's very

intentional that way

>> and uh and she's a hard worker. I mean,

she's I don't know if she'd call herself

a workaholic, but she works hard. She

likes to work. Mhm.

>> And uh and that's reflected in the work

that she does. And speaking of which,

this is I have another

question for her that I'd like you to

ask her. And then me afterwards

>> about sun sun protection.

>> No, no. Yes, sun protection for sure.

Definitely call me. You're getting hat

you're wearing all day long. You're

sleeping in it. But I'm in my kitchen

and the reason I'm in my kitchen is

because it's a cooking question. And

also, I just want to point out for

people who are listening but not

watching, a gorgeous bowl of lemons

behind you. Oh, [clears throat]

>> just a gorgeous bowl.

>> What an extraordinary segue, Amy Polar,

because the dish that I created was a

lemon dish.

>> Yes. And I made a lemon sorbet, which

I'm going to show you.

>> Brag.

>> And we're we're going into Julia's

refrigerator right now. She made a

sorbet in a lemon. Okay. So listeners,

this is a gorgeous sorbet that is in a a

lemon

>> in a lemon

>> rind. Is it peel the lemon case?

>> It's in the It's in the shall we say the

casing

>> the lemon cup? The she took

>> the casing of a lemon.

>> Okay. She made the sorbet and then she

scooped out the lemon and she put it

back in. So now the lemon serves as a

dish.

>> Correct. And so the sorbet is delicious.

>> Looks incredible. I made it with lemon

water and sugar

>> and lemon zest.

>> Okay. [clears throat]

>> But here's the issue. It's very icy

[laughter] and it's not creamy.

>> Ah, I see.

>> So, the question I don't know if you

cook, Amy, do you

>> I do. I I love to cook and I want to

talk to about it because I was late to

cooking. Very late. Well, by the way,

all of her books are good for you

because they're so

uh easy. It's not crazy complicated and

delicious delicious recipes. But anyway,

I need to know what to add to this. I'm

guessing it's some sort of a binder of

some sort that I can add to this to give

it more of a um creamier

sorbet texture versus what I've got,

which by the way is totally delicious.

But you can see it sort of it sort of

breaks off.

>> I find ice cream and sorbet to be very

hard to make. Very hard to make. Well,

>> I got news for you. This is delicious.

[laughter] Maybe don't ask her anything.

>> Yeah, maybe it's perfect.

>> But I would like to know. I really

would.

>> Okay. So, I'm going to ask her about the

sorbet. I'm going to ask her about um

her positive attitude. And I will just

say, and this is obvious question, but

now that you are friends and you hang

out, have you and Brad gone to dinner

with AA and Jeffrey?

>> Yes.

>> Great. And two very successful, long

marriages, both of you. You know how I

feel about you and your husband, Brad

Hall. Truly couple goals, both of you.

Just

>> Oh, that's so nice.

>> You know, you know, there's not always a

lot of couples that you want to hang

with.

>> That's true. [laughter]

It's true. It's usually one or the

other.

>> Yeah, it's true. We have dinner plans

tonight with a couple and let's just say

I'm thinking of a way right now to get

out of it. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Yeah. You could just say you you

you were you were wearing a hat and it

>> I was wearing a hat and I got a

headache.

>> Got too tight.

>> I ate too much sorbet. Uh I'm [laughter]

sick.

That'll work.

>> Okay. So, I'm going to ask about her

attitude. sorbet and what puts her in a

bad mood. [laughter]

>> I'd really like to know what puts her in

a bad mood. I hope she'll answer honest.

>> I know. I wonder. I mean, truly what I

what is so interesting about her is her

success came late in life.

>> Yeah. I FYI, she worked in the White

House

in nuclear energy as I recall.

>> Dang. What a life indeed. So, I I ended

you for talking to her and tell her I

said hi. I will

>> and call me later and I'll give you a a

bunch of uh sunscreen tips, including

clothing.

>> I know.

>> And products for your face.

>> I got to get the whole

>> Do the sunscreen. I've got good

sunscreen that doesn't turn your face

white too.

>> Okay. I I always use sunscreen, but I

think I'm at a point now where I have to

wear the full shirt, which

I know. God. You know, it's just like it

feels like everything fun is taken away.

[laughter]

>> That's the attitude, Amy. Except for

Sorbet. Except for

>> Wait, tella that. Tell her that.

[laughter]

>> Help me get out of this funk if you can.

[laughter]

>> Do you ever feel like everything fun is

taken away? Anyway, um Julia's having

some trouble with her sorbet and the

creaminess of it. So, let's get to that.

>> [laughter]

[gasps]

>> Um, all right. Thank you for jumping on.

I really appreciate it. And will you

come will you come do this someday when

you're not doing yours. I know you're so

busy, but come.

>> I would love to. Absolutely love to

because you are in fact a good hang.

>> Thank you. So are you, friend. And I

think about our times together a lot and

always want more of them. So let's make

it happen.

>> Done and done. Woohoo!

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>> So I brought you a little present. I

shopped all over the world for it. I

went to Hermes. I went to all the

fabulous stores and I I I chose

something I thought you might like.

[laughter]

>> Listeners, is giving me a beautiful

green bag. This is some ASMR. Some

crinkle ASMR.

Oh my goodness.

[laughter]

>> Did I guess right?

>> I'm getting chills.

>> Okay. [laughter]

No, it's not a diamond necklace.

>> This is so incredible. Jenna, do you

know what this is? [laughter]

>> I brought a [laughter] fake roast

chicken.

just to add to your collection.

[laughter]

>> Um, actually, my heart is pounding.

>> My heart is pounding. First of all,

there's so many things I love about

this. [laughter] Thank you very I love

this.

>> I really I'm just going to cry.

Um, I like that it is the same size as a

roast chicken.

>> It's not a fake fake. It's a real fake.

It

>> I like the glistening. There's some kind

of [laughter] fake glass.

>> I like that his little legs are tied

together.

This is actually how you would cuz I

make your roast chicken with fennel.

Yes. It's my favorite recipe. And this

And you talk about tucking the wings and

tying here and putting the lemons

inside.

>> And um the weight of it for for you

can't uh listeners, you can't feel it,

but it's got a good weight, but not

[laughter] too like if you dropped it on

your toe, you would break it.

I know that is the night. As you've

heard, I love [laughter] fake food. I'

I've gotten that idea here. And I know I

should probably put it in the back, but

I also want to keep it close. Oh, I love

it. Okay, I'll put it in the back. Thank

you so much for [laughter] your lovely

gift. And now everyone who sees it will

know that it came from you. [laughter] I

mean, your roast chicken, we have a lot

to talk about today.

>> Okay.

>> But I'm sure you've heard this from many

people, but what you you are like a

translator. So

you take what you've learned and what

you know and you make people understand

it. And it's a rare skill.

>> Oh, thank you. And that's wonderful.

>> I I just this this roast chicken,

[laughter] even though it's fake, is

making me think about the fact that you

taught me how to make a roast chicken,

which what and what is bigger than that

and deeper than that is you

>> it's not about the chicken. It's about

when you cook, everybody shows up and

then you create a community around

yourself. And I didn't know that until I

started writing cookbooks. But it's just

a really important thing that we all

need to feel like we're part of

something and that we take care of

people. They take care of us.

>> And a roast chicken is the most basic

thing. They're almost I don't think

there's a culture in the world that

doesn't have some kind of roast chicken.

>> So people start podcasts sometimes to

check mics and they say, "What did you

eat for breakfast?" Like, "What what did

you eat for breakfast?" is the is the

question that a lot of people ask um

when they're starting a podcast. I know.

What did you have for breakfast this

morning? I have the same thing I always

have. I either have and I go for years

with one breakfast and then I switch and

I go for years with another breakfast.

So I always have whole grain toast um

with really good butter. I love um

French butter and coffee

>> and that's breakfast.

>> Coffee drinker. How do you take your

coffee?

>> Um with milk

>> and tea drinker at all?

>> Um I I start drinking tea around 10:30.

Like not at 10:29, not 10:31, but at

10:30 my brain goes tea [laughter]

>> and no more coffee the rest of the day.

>> I probably not. Yeah,

>> that's a lot of my friends. I have a lot

of young friends who talk about how they

can't sleep and when you check out their

coffee intake.

>> Crazy. It's crazy. But I have I brought

something else with me, too. While we're

on that subject of breakfast, [laughter]

>> you brought something else

>> and I think Jenna might have it right

here. I know

>> if if we play our cards right. Mine is

giving me more things. [laughter]

I'm overwhelmed.

>> Well, I thought we have to have a party

here.

>> You know how to throw a [laughter]

party.

>> We love a good party.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay, so

>> they had fabulous strawberries at at

Italy downstairs.

They're from um Harry's Berries in in I

think it's in the Northwest.

>> Yeah, Har's Berries is really big in

California too.

>> Oh, it's just just the best. And I

thought we have to have something to

drink with. Show it. So, we got a nice

chilled Trocco. [laughter]

This could be breakfast.

>> I want you to know I I I barely drink

anymore. So, I'm a real lightweight.

>> Oh, I'm worse. I'm totally worse. I

always say I spend so much more time

talking about drinking than I do

actually drinking. If I [laughter] have

a half a glass of that, I'm going to

really start spiring some secrets.

There's going to be some tears.

>> So, so I think I might have to fill your

glass. [laughter]

>> And also,

>> first getting it open is not so easy. I

used to be in the food service industry.

Oh, you were so on.

>> I'd be happy to open it for you because

>> I think you're going to be the one to do

this.

>> Okay. Because I used to open a lot of um

Wait, why are you flinching, Jenna? I

know how to open um So, here's the key.

>> Turn the bottle, not the cork, right?

>> Exactly. And also, you want to you want

to do the um the thing where you are

talk about something else while you're

doing it so

>> Oh, very good idea. just say like, you

know, when you're opening your um

champagne, you're just saying, "So, just

a couple of things about the specials

tonight." Um [laughter] we have a

gorgeous um fake roast chicken

that is really delicious. And we have um

we have um

>> Well done like a pro. Whoa. [laughter]

>> Oh my god. May I pour?

>> Yes, please.

>> Thank you so much. Okay, we're pouring

champagne. Very little one I've ever

[laughter]

>> podcasts are great, guys. All you do is

you get presents and then you [laughter]

have champagne with aa and strawberries.

>> Isn't this very pretty woman? Champagne

and strawberries.

>> Cheers.

>> This is how we imagined our life.

Cheers. [laughter]

Cut to me immediately crying.

>> Okay. Wow. And these strawberries look

amazing, too. You know, I'm going to say

something a little controversial.

There's going to be a lot of controversy

in this podcast. [laughter]

Fruit

Fruit. You don't like fruit? I like it,

but I'll take a vegetable over fruit.

I'll take vegetables over fruit.

>> But fruit that is picked before you eat

it

>> that's that tastes like fruit. The

problem is a lot of things here have

been picked like 6 months ago and

they're shipped somewhere. They're not

it's it's not like going to a farm stand

and buying. When when you go to France,

there are stores that sell fruit that

when you go to pick out a pair, they

say, "No, you want these pairs, and do

you want to eat it today or tomorrow?"

And they're choosing it by how ripe it

is. So, it's going to be perfect today

or perfect tomorrow. The problem is

we're eating fruit out of season.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, the strawberries are in season.

We're eating fruit that's not ripened on

the vine. It's been ripened by sitting

around, which doesn't ripen it. It just

ages it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so the thing about good

like good strawberries, it tastes like

strawberry jam. You don't need to do

anything with it.

>> And I know this is kind of a Sophie's

choice, but if you had to go between

sweet and salty, what would be your

choice? Are you a savory or are you a

sweet person?

>> Um, probably savory. Probably savory.

>> That's what I'm saying. So fruit

sometimes is a little like I'd rather

have a a cheese than a fruit.

>> Oh, I'm with you there. Okay. Cheese and

bread. I mean like

>> forget it. [laughter]

>> Cheese and bread. Desert Island. You and

I are good.

What you grew up in Brooklyn? What did

you eat growing up? Your mother was a

dietician. Yeah. Did you have did that

what were you eating at home and what

did you eat?

>> It was she was very extreme in her in

what she served and she believed that

you should only eat protein and

vegetables and nothing else.

>> I mean there were no there were no

there's there wasn't bread, there wasn't

um French fries, there wasn't um there

was I mean literally no carbs.

>> Wow. So, I was like starving when I was

[laughter] a kid.

>> There was no cookies and milk when you

got home from school. If I asked her for

something for um at one if I got home

and I was hungry, she'd go, "Oh, just

eat an apple." I mean, nobody wants an

apple after school. [laughter]

>> No. Especially since they've just given

one to a teacher and associated with

teachers. But it's it's interesting

because you know um in uh when you grew

up and and after there was a a I mean

there still is of course this crazy diet

culture but there was this like weird

fear about food like and the fear shifts

all the time. Sometimes we're afraid of

carbs, then we're afraid of fats, then

we're afraid of like and you've

witnessed this the trends that where

people come and go and they decide what

we're supposed to be afraid of.

>> And I remember growing up grip in the

70s, there was just a lot of um

misinformation about food. It was just

we just didn't know what we didn't know,

I guess. Yes. I mean, at the end of the

day, I think the more you cook, um, and

choose simple things to cook and the

less you eat processed foods, that's

really all you need to know. And if if

you eat a balanced diet, you feel

better.

>> I know.

>> It doesn't mean you're, you know, you're

living on carbs or you're they're no

carbs. It's balanced. And if you want to

be healthier, then eat a little more

vegetables and a little less protein and

carbs. But I mean, that's not that

complicated.

>> But real food

>> was not something discussed in the 70s.

the 70s was about gadgets and shortcuts,

right? Because women were going back to

work and it was very much like, hey, you

don't have to make the meal, make, you

know, make stuff in your microwave

instead. And there was I I remember I

I'll speak on behalf of my mom, like a

freedom in things being faster and

easier and kids being able to do it and

all that kind of stuff. But we did

>> Did you cook when you were a kid?

>> No.

>> Cuz you didn't start cooking until you

were like 40, right? Right.

>> So what what changed? So, I I really

believed up and and kind of what I what

I was saying to you earlier, I really

believed that I just was the kind of

person that I was like, I just I just

don't think I'm the kind of person that

cooks and I would say myself.

>> You don't you're not the kind of person

who can cook or wants to cook.

>> I think a little bit of both. I think it

was like I don't really know enough

dishes and um maybe it's not something

I'm not interested in. But what

motivates me sometimes, AA, is watching

really dumb people do things [laughter]

because I'm like, wait a minute. There's

a lot of Wait, look at interviewing me.

By the way, I'm doing so [laughter] much

talking. Wait a minute. Hold on. I got

to pause. You are good. [laughter]

You're interviewing me. Um, okay. I'm

going to pass over you. [laughter]

>> All right. I had one sip of my go. ONE

SIP.

>> ONE SIP. [laughter] And I'm like, you

know what the thing is? Ha. um the 70s.

No [laughter]

but and you were a big part of me

feeling like, wait a minute, I've seen

>> Was I that dumb person cooking?

[laughter]

>> We have to back up here.

>> No, I guess I mean that like I was

motivated by I watched people learn how

to cook and I thought, "Hold on. I I I I

know how to learn new things. I can

learn new things." One of the my

favorite things that Jennifer Garner

ever said was was she said, "As you get

older, you you're not willing to try new

things because you're afraid of

failing."

>> Of course,

>> when you're a kid, you try everything

and you fail. You get up, you do it

again, but as we get older, we're not

willing to do that. And I think it's it

really got me to think about the things

that I wasn't doing because I thought I

wouldn't be able to do them well. That's

a pattern in your life over and over

again for you is you decide to kind of

>> evaluate where you are and choose a

joyful next path. Like it's [snorts]

>> you've done that over and over again. So

you grew up in Brooklyn.

>> We we got to bring Jeffrey in right

away. [laughter] I mean I don't know. We

just got to bring him in. I'd love to

bring him in here right now. I mean,

Jeffrey and you meet first when you're

16 and then

>> I was I was like 17 when he saw me and I

He was I was 16 when he saw me and I met

him when I was 17.

>> And you were married at 20.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Smartest thing I ever did.

>> I know. [laughter] I I have to say

>> against everybody's advice, if your

mother tells you not to marry somebody,

listen to yourself, not your mother.

>> And what what did Jeffrey's parents

think? Did he Did they

>> They were just wonderful to me. They

were they were wonderful. Yeah.

Jeffrey's grandmother when he they they

met me I met them when at some family

bar mitzvah or something and Jeffy's um

uh his button fell off his coat and I

said, "Oh, just give it to me. I'll sew

it back on again." And his grandmothers

were taking their wedding rings and

going, "Marry her now before somebody

else does. She knows how to sew it back.

>> She knows how to sew a button on."

[laughter]

Um it it there's I think what people um

I know I know what people respond to

about your relationship with Jeffrey and

it is that

>> you kind of can't fake mutual respect.

You just see it or you don't. Um and you

two have a lot of respect for each

other.

>> Yeah. And we do we keep it very simple.

We have a very different kind of life

than than we expected to. I mean we

don't have kids. We don't have cats and

dogs. So we don't have gerbles.

[laughter] We're we're just it's just

the two of us. And if we trying to

figure out what to do, we figure out

what he wants to do and what I want to

do. And this is what Jeffrey taught me

is is let's figure out how we can both

do what we want to do. It's not about

whether we get to do what you want to do

or I want to do and and big things like

careers and small things like what movie

we go see.

>> Um I I just I love that about him. He's

so respectful and it's pretty hard not

to,

>> you know, to return that.

>> Yeah. It's just in a long marriage, in a

long relationship, it's like one of the

things you have to be vigilant about is

just trying to stay respectful to with

someone that you that you um

know so well because we just get very

familiar with people and we forget that

part where we have to be kind of tender

with them and you you both are very

tender with each other.

>> I just I don't take it for granted ever.

>> What do people say to you about your

relationship with Jeffree? Because I bet

people project a lot on it. I know the

internet does.

>> A lot a lot of people say, "Oh, I have a

Jeffrey, too." And I think to myself,

"Nah." [laughter]

You're like, "Bring it to me."

>> In your [laughter] dreams

and you're like, "Stay away from mine,

Jeffrey." Does women ever hit on you,

Jeffrey?

>> No.

>> I [laughter] hope not.

>> My god, I would kill those women. But

yeah, people say, "Oh, I have a" And

what do you think they're saying when

they say that? that I have somebody that

I have a really good time with that I

just adore and he adores me back which

is all you really want right

>> yeah but you know that's what you want

and I I relate to that too but I think

sometimes people forget the fun part in

relationship like

>> it's so important

>> why is it important

>> I mean what's the first thing you look

for in a friend or a spouse they have a

sense of humor

>> because otherw I mean every there's such

crazy stuff going on if you don't have a

sense of humor about it you're just too

serious you're too serious to live with

[laughter]

>> I know I It's very simple, but it's

sometimes hard to learn. And I do think

that the other thing that people see in

your relationship is a man uh who is

very in love with his partner and

you are choosing someone who loves you,

I guess, is the simplest way to say it.

And that's it seems so easy and simple,

but it's not always what people do.

>> Um I I knew somebody who who would fix

people up with, you know, together. Um,

and Jeffree said to her, "What what do

you look for in somebody that you're

fixing up with a friend of yours?" And

she said, "Three things.

Are they a good person? Do they want to

take care of you?" And that doesn't mean

financially. That means everything.

Like, do you want do they want to take

care of you? And the third one really

shocked me because it was so simple.

>> Does he want to be with you?

>> So many people want a wife, but they

want to go play golf. [laughter]

But that's the thing about Jeffrey.

There's nothing. I mean, he just follows

me around the house. [laughter]

>> And every once in a while, I turn around

and go, "Does he want to be with you?"

[gasps]

>> Yes. Do you want to be in each other's

company?

>> Do you want to be Do you want to be

together or you're just looking for that

to fill in that blank?

>> Yeah. That is so deep.

>> It It really is. It's so simple and yet

it's so important.

>> Yeah. And and I know that you you know

you

I Anyone who's been married, how many

years have you been married?

57.

>> So you have this, you know, everchanging

story, right? This song that keeps

changing um and growing. How have you

grown? How have you both changed from

when you were married at 20? Like how

are you different?

>> Well, I think when we were married at

20, we each had like roles. You know, he

was the husband, I was the wife. I'd go,

you know, we both had jobs and, you

know, we he would go to the State

Department. I worked in the White House

and and it was assumed that I would come

home and make dinner until it I found it

just incredibly annoying. I just didn't

want to have the girl roll and him have

the boy roll. And so we just threw the

whole thing away and started all over

again.

>> And he took the checkbook and he said,

"Here, you do it." There [laughter] was

one time he said to me, he said to me,

"I what's he like doing that bills?" And

he goes, "I what's this bill from

Bloomingdales?" And I thought, "I'm not

about to justify to you what my bill

from Bloomingdales is." and he picks up

the checkbook and he hands it to me. He

goes, "Okay, you do it." And I said,

"Fine." And that was that. It's

>> so funny. I have such memories of my

parents sitting at the kitchen table

with their checkbook together.

>> Doing it together.

>> That's interesting.

>> And and and it being a big deal about

who was doing it. And you're right,

especially a lot of women during that

time just didn't weren't even aware of

their financial situation, let alone

knew how to do it.

>> Exactly. And and recently, actually,

Jeffree said to me, "So, how much do we

spend on the garden?" [laughter]

>> And you're like, you like, "Jeffrey,

don't ask questions like that. Doesn't

matter. We have strawberries. We're

fine.

>> I just went I don't think so. [laughter]

He goes, "Okay, I get it."

>> Okay. [laughter] We cannot blow past the

White House what you just said so

casually. I was at the White House. He

was at the State Department like a

[laughter] like an episode of the

Americans or something. But um

>> that was us. You didn't know that.

[laughter]

>> That's the untold story.

>> People could say could argue that you

and Jeffrey worked for the CIA.

>> [laughter]

>> But we both well I think a few people

you know you don't know this about

Jeffrey but he was a paratrooper and a

green beret and then his first job was

in the White House and then he worked

for the Secretary of State. So everybody

I know thinks he's in the CIA and every

once in a while I go are you are you

actually in the CIA [laughter]

and he always says you know the wives

are the last to know [laughter]

that would be an amazing show. I would

[laughter] watch that where he reveals

at age 90

>> and I'm a Russian agent.

>> But you worked in the White House and

you were working during the Ford

administration and the Carter

administration like during the those

four

>> I started when Ford came in and then

stayed on through Carter.

>> And what were you doing there?

[laughter]

>> I worked on nuclear energy policy.

>> Nuclear energy

>> energy policy. So um it's the part of

the the federal budget that I worked at

office of management budget which writes

the president's budget and I I oversaw

the budget for nuclear power plants and

interesting that it's come up now

enriched uranium.

>> Yes. It's it's it's very uranium is in

the news. It's in the news [laughter]

back in the news.

>> Exactly.

>> And um how did you get that job? How did

you get a job? I just I think Jeffrey

knew somebody in the White House who was

looking for somebody and I applied for

the job and got it.

>> And you talked about how it was pretty

it was tough for you. There was things

moved slowly.

>> Slowly. Oh my god. Every year we would

take something out of the budget,

something big. I mean in the at the time

it was um there was one pro nuclear

project that was $20 billion which was a

lot at that time in the 70s. and it

would go up to the hill and the Congress

person, I think it was STM Thurman, was

from the district that this plant was

in. And then we were trying to get get

rid of it or give it to private

industry. He would have no control over

it. So he would put it back in

>> and then the next year I'd write the

same paper to the president to take it

out and the next year Thurman would put

it back in again. And after four years

of that, I was like, "Okay, I'm done.

I'm so done. I'm not writing this paper

one more time." So you you you you're

writing budgets and you decide I I need

something where there's I really need to

do something that like where I can make

something do something and I can see the

results of it fast. Mhm.

>> And so can you just tell me how do you

go from I mean I've read about it and

I've and I've um watched you talk about

it but still the leap from working in

that very corporate job to running a

store is such an interesting leap. What

made you what gave you this uh the

courage to make the leap? How do you

make that career change?

>> I knew I was done with working in the

government. Yeah.

>> And I was I when [clears throat] I lived

in Washington, I taught myself how to

cook. Um I used to just for fun buy old

houses, renovate them, and sell them.

And um and actually I was going to

business school at the same time. I

don't know how I did any of that. Wow.

And um I knew I was either going to go

into real estate or the food business,

and I just didn't know which one. And

then this ad showed up in the New York

Times, and I came home that night, and

Jeffrey I said to Jeffrey, I really need

to find something else to do. And he

said, "Just pick something fun. Pick

something that you think you'd love

doing, and if you love it, you'll be

really good at it." And I was like,

"Funny, you should mention it." I saw an

ad for for the a business for sale in a

place I'd never been. It was a specialy

food store, and he said, "Let's go look

at it."

>> Wow.

>> So, I mean, what an incredible guy. He

was it was in a place that he didn't

live. He was working for the Secretary

of State. Um, it would basically blow up

our lives. and and he said just just go

go go look at it.

>> You have now a business employees and

you have to learn very quickly how to be

a boss.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And so what you know how would

you describe yourself as a boss?

>> I I always wanted to be the boss that I

wanted to have myself.

>> And so I'm very collaborative.

>> Um I think in the beginning I was

probably too collaborative like what do

you think we should do here? What should

we do there? And and as I got better at

it, um somebody actually gave me a

friend gave me the advice, "Your

employees need two things from you. They

need you to be clear and they need you

to be happy."

>> And um and from then on, I would say, "I

need these candies bagged and I need

them wrapped up like this." And if I was

having a bad day, I would just disturb

the energy in the room.

>> I And sometimes I had 50 or 100

employees and they'd all be like, "What

did I do wrong?" But it had nothing to

do with them. So, I would just walk out

of the store, I'd walk around the block,

calm myself down, and come back happy.

And it was I think that was the best

lesson I ever had for business.

>> Do you How do you give feedback or

criticism?

>> I'm very clear about two things. If I'm

criticizing you, I'll take you out of

the room and discuss what you can do

better. If I'm

>> complimenting you, I'll do it with

everybody around.

>> But I never totally agree. Don't you? I

I think compliments with everyone around

is a huge thing that people forget to

do. I think they actually do the

opposite quite a bit. They criticize

with everyone around and they compliment

privately

>> and if I have to fire somebody, I'm

always worried what are their what are

their colleagues going to say and um you

know I usually give them a lot of

warning, explain what they have to do

better and at the end of the day it

doesn't work. I fire them usually in a

way that makes them say thank you and

kiss me when they leave [laughter] like

this isn't the right job for you but

that could be the right job for you and

then I call everybody together and that

works for me and I say I need to explain

to you what happened why this didn't

work out with that person cuz I'm so

worried that their colleagues are going

to be mad mad that their friend is gone

and 100% of the time they're like oh

such a pain in the neck we hated working

with them I'm so glad you fired them

right

>> so it turns it always but you need need

that communication.

>> It it's it it was and it's a kind of a

on the-job learned skill because to your

point I think uh

>> we're I'm going to make a huge

generalization here, but sometimes a lot

of women are good collaborators. So we

figure out like I think the best way to

be uh in charge here is to make sure

everybody's voices are heard and I'm

constantly collaborating until you

realize that people are looking

>> for direction

>> for direction.

>> Yeah. And I I start with the assumption

everybody wants to do a good job. I just

have to give them the tools to do it.

>> I have to I have to tell you one story

though. first probably a month in when I

bought Barefoot Contessa and there was

um I think there was a cook and three

people working in the store and one of

them was just dreadful and they were all

like 16 years old but she was just I

mean she had no vision like if I tell

her to you know clean the counter if

there were 20 customers waiting she'd be

cleaning the counter [laughter]

>> right

>> like she was just very sweet but not

very good so I took her out in the back

and I explained that you know I'm sure

there are other jobs that you're good at

this isn't the one. And it was so gentle

cuz I was so worried about hurting her

feelings

>> that the next day she showed up for work

again. She didn't know she fired.

[laughter]

>> And the worst part is I couldn't do it

again. So she stayed for the whole

summer. [laughter]

>> I've gotten better than that. [laughter]

I could see that happening too. Me too.

Yeah. Where everyone's like, "Thank you

for the feedback. I'll see you

tomorrow." And it's like, "Oh [laughter]

no, what have I done?" Um, Barefoot

Contessa, when you opened the store,

what was the stuff that you were trying

to sell there that spoke to people who

were wanting real food?

>> Well, you know, I had to learn it.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, I I thought the this is it's an

expensive store. It's very expensive to

make specialty foods. I'm in the

Hamptons. I I'd never been there before.

So, I had an image of it being fancy.

Mhm.

>> And so if I made I mean while we're

talking about roast chicken, if I made

roast chicken in the store, I'd take a

huge white platter and I'd fill it with

fresh herbs and then I put the roast

chickens on it and then put them out and

nobody bought them. And I was like,

"Okay, what am I doing wrong?" I took

the chicken back in the kitchen and I um

put all the chickens in little red and

white paper cups like you would put um

French fries in and put them on the

counter and they all sold. And I

thought, "Oh, that's so interesting.

People want really accessible food. They

don't want fancy food because they're

eating it at home. It's different. When

you go to a restaurant, you want

something that's [snorts] interesting

that you've never had before or takes a

long time. At home, you want simple

food. You want roast chicken, roast

carrots, and brownies

>> and and what do you say?

>> Really good ones, but really good ones.

>> And they they taste good when you make

them. Then they're the really good ones.

But that is a thing that I think is just

it's like the thing that you capture

with the your cookbooks, your show, your

um your podcast. This idea that you know

you have everything you need like you've

got it within you. It's very like

>> you know um Wizard of Oz or something

which is like you've you've it's been in

you all along.

>> You just don't know it's there. We just

have to unleash it. Isn't that that's

one of the things that I really wasn't

prepared for when I started writing

cookbooks is people sending me gifts.

>> They were kept sending me things. I'm

like, why are they do what what I mean?

People were like um making huge pots and

and that they threw themselves and

sending why are people being so nice to

me? And I realized that it was I wasn't

giving them something like a cookbook. I

was giving them the tools to make

something for themselves and they would

put it out and people would say you made

that chocolate cake yourself and they

felt good about themselves and that's I

think they wanted to thank me which was

so lovely. It was such a realization

that it was um that it was it just felt

very generous. It was really nice that

we're giving giving people the tools to

do something for themselves.

>> People really attach to you know

[laughter] that's so sweet.

>> It's really sweet. I mean I think you

remind them of someone in their family.

I think they feel exactly what you've

taught them something. It's like teacher

and mommy and you know Jedi master and

like [laughter] relationship goals and

all that stuff. Um how does it feel to

get all that like love and attention

from people? I mean who wouldn't like

it?

>> I mean it sounds great. [laughter]

>> When they start throwing things we'll

talk about it.

>> Yeah. It sounds great. [laughter]

Dumbest question I've ever asked.

Okay, I have a question for you.

>> Okay, here we go. Here we go.

>> What's your favorite New Yorker cartoon?

>> Oh my god. I heard you love New Yorker

cartoons.

>> I love New Yorker cartoons.

>> I don't remember any of them.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yes. [laughter] But they're so good. Oh,

no. I do remember one.

>> I knew you would.

>> Okay. Thank you for asking. And for

anyone under the age of 55, The New

Yorker is a magazine [laughter]

and it you can read it in person and it

you flip through it like it's um like a

book but skinnier and flatter.

[laughter]

And for and and for those who forget, a

book is a

[laughter]

um

uh it is a piece of rigetony

[laughter]

on the phone

calling somebody and saying, "You silly,

you crazy bastard. How [laughter] are

you?"

>> I love [laughter] that you were a food

one cuz all of mine are food.

Yeah, mine was my favorite one is is a

little pig sitting on the um examining

table in a doctor's office and the

doctor comes in with his his um

clipboard and he goes, "I have very bad

news. It's your ribs. They're delicious.

[laughter]

>> Oh my god. [laughter] Do you ever do you

ever enter those contests? Those

>> No, I I wouldn't have a clue how I It

amazes me how people can write those

things."

>> Me, too. No. And I, you know, I write,

no, I write jokes for a living. One

could argue. And um often times I'll be

I'll just be staring at the picture like

stumped like why do I stay here? And

it's so funny. It's just like I guess

Hey guys, what's going on? Like it's I

actually just saw a cartoon. It wasn't

the New Yorker, but I just saw a

cartoon. It was two dogs coming up to

the front door and there were two dogs

answering the door and um they

[laughter] and one of the dogs the ones

arriving said, "You know, Cheryl said,

"Life is short. We really have to smell

the roses."

[laughter] And he saw that there was a

mailbox and it said rose. So the dogs

inside were the roses. [laughter]

Life is short, we really have to smell

the roses.

>> [laughter]

>> And I just started laughing. I couldn't

stop.

>> What do you like? What do you like about

New York?

>> The play on words. The play on words.

>> The intelligence behind it.

>> I just thought, what kind of a mind

thought of that cartoon? Life is short.

We have really have to go smell the

roses. And they said, and here we are.

[laughter]

>> Well, you know, I usually ask this

question at the end, but I want to ask

it now, which is, what do you what makes

you laugh? What like what what are you

reading, watching? What you I can tell

that you like to laugh. Um, what makes

you

>> I do my friends.

>> I just I don't tend to watch humorous

movies or shows or things like that. I

just my I love my friends have great

sense of humor and they just make me

laugh all the time.

>> Well, how important, you know, in being

in your 70s, what are what do female

friendships mean to you? What do your

friendships mean to you?

>> I mean, it's everything. It's

everything. Yeah, I mean I I I mean

Jeffreey's clearly my best friend, but

but women bring something totally

different and it's really connection and

actually that's what I always thought

that um I was so pleased that I was in

the food business because I could really

work out the issues from my childhood

and I and it was just wonderful. But

when I started doing Be My Guest, I

realized what I was missing really is

connection

>> and um and it's that's been just

extraordinary. I've made well your dear

friend Tina have made made um great

friends. You guys went out to eat. It

was so much fun.

>> And you're friends with Julia Lou

Drifus. Julia. Congratulations to

Queens. Is she the best?

>> Well, she not only is she the best, but

she spoke to us before this podcast. She

did.

>> We got a question.

Special guest. [laughter]

>> We talked to Julia because um great.

>> Yep. And um

>> so smart and she said the same thing

about you. She said you're really smart.

Yep.

>> Thank you. Smarties all around. And

Tina, all smart [laughter] people,

smart, wonderful, talented women.

>> Smart people who have a sense of humor

have the best senses of humor.

>> Well, Tina has said this, which is you

can tell a lot about somebody by what

they laugh at.

>> Yeah.

>> Um although that doesn't say much about

me because I laugh at everything.

[laughter]

Um but um

>> you just like to laugh. That's all.

That's good.

>> But yeah, you're right. A sense of humor

is a sign of intelligence and also it's

the way we just tell each other what we

care about. Um so Julia, we spoke to

Julia. She says hello.

>> She was wearing a giant sun hat and

going through her refrigerator when we

talked to her. [laughter] And um she had

a question for you. Um

she said, "What how are you so

cheerful?"

Um and then she said, "And what makes

you um uh what puts you in a bad mood?"

passive aggressive people who tell you

what you want to hear and do exactly as

they please makes me crazy and I can

chew on them for years.

>> Say more about that. What do you mean?

So like someone who

>> We all know Yeah. Well, we all know

people that if if you're doing something

with someone, you want to

be collaborative. Let's just all figure

out what the issues are, what we need to

do, and then together we'll make a

decision. unless I'm, you know, unless

it's my business, but you know, just

moving forward.

>> Um, and I don't like people that

withhold information so that they

control the situation

>> because then I'm making a decision with

without the real information. And I I

just find passive aggressive makes me

crazy. [laughter]

>> Oh, I love that.

>> I mean, crazy. And you you you also

asked what what how I keep my happiness,

my joy. I think that it needs to be

nurtured. I think we're e, we're either

um born with a positive or a negative

energy.

>> And I, you know, I think about when I do

yoga and the um my instructor says um

[clears throat] what does she say? Um um

find your inner smile.

>> I think you either walk around with an

inner smile or you don't.

>> And if you don't, I think you need to

just nurture it.

>> And I feel like I I was just born this

way. My parents used to said, "I came

out like playing with my toes and

giggling." And it's um I think it's an

important thing to do. I think it makes

life easier.

>> Yeah.

>> I It's really um I think it's really

important. And yes, we've had

extraordinary lives, but we also had

difficult times.

>> You have you talk a lot about it in your

memoir.

>> We've all had had difficult had

difficult times. And um and how you deal

with it is is it's up to you. you know,

if if if I may, you spoke about your

late in life um would you

[clears throat] say reconciliation with

your dad, like how did that Yes. Do you

want to talk a little [clears throat]

bit about that?

>> Um you know, my my dad was a not a great

dad. He was really tough and critical,

but later on he just he we were together

at a they were giving him a party for me

for my second book, so it was 2000. And

um he was sitting with me and he said

said to me one sentence that made all

the difference in the world. He looked

at me and he said I don't know what I

was thinking

and I mean it makes me cry just now. And

that changed our whole relationship

because he felt badly about it and he

basically said I'm sorry in that

sentence. And then we went on but my dad

I have to say um he was a tough dad but

he also gave me something when I was a

child that was really important. He

loved to talk through real, he was a

doctor, but he loved to buy real estate.

So, he would always talk through real

estate deals and he'd say, "Come come in

my in my study and talk through this

deal with me." And so, he taught me how

to, you know, borrow money, go to the

bank, borrow money. Um, I credit him

with a lot of lot of things that I've

done

>> that don't scare me because I'm used to

talking about it that way.

>> Yeah. I mean, you it's and also such an

example of like you have to be open to

the idea of uh forgiveness. So, or the

idea of

>> Yeah. letting things go basically like

it shows up in all different ways. It

shows up in the way you are in

relationship with your husband which is

like we just kind of don't sweat the

small stuff and you just have to kind of

like you know like love each other

through hard times. It's it shows up in

the way that you cook which is when

there's like a mistake or an accident or

like an oopsie. It's like funny. It's

fun.

>> It's not the end of the world.

>> Let it go. It's [laughter] not the end

of the world.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And but but then it becomes

of course much deeper when it has to do

with your family of origin and and

deciding like how much you're going to

hold on to.

>> And it doesn't mean you always forget. I

mean every once in a while I have lunch

with him and I go can't believe I'm

having lunch with this monster. But he

wasn't then. He really had come around

and you know but it's it's you have to

push that away. That's that was then.

This is now. And you know there's all we

we fetishize um uh we well we fetishize

marriage especially you know um you know

cis straight marriage um but we also

fetishize children and people who have

them and you don't have children. What

is the best thing about not having

children?

>> Not be responsible for them. [laughter]

>> Not having teenagers.

>> [laughter]

>> You don't want somebody who says, "I

hate you." And

>> no, not so much.

>> Crashes the car. [laughter] And

>> are you trying to lease yours out?

>> Well, I mean, I don't think people, you

know, there's all these studies.

Married people without children are the

happiest people. Like, like there's

[laughter] all these studies and

everyone keeps going, "Well, they just

haven't met my children yet." You know,

but um

>> I mean, it's amazing to me that I made

that decision so young and that thank

God was okay with it. Um but um I just

can't imagine my life any other way.

I've done it done what I wanted to do.

Um I've had one, you know, just a

wonderful time.

>> You made very countercultural decisions

for a woman of your generation.

>> You really did. But but I I maybe maybe

I'm just projecting, but I feel like,

you know, uh when you were working and

doing all these cho making all these

choices and making these big leaps and

big swings, um it you didn't have as

many women uh doing the same thing at

the same time.

>> I didn't have any. I really didn't have

any. I can't think of anybody that I

knew at the time who made the same

choices. I really can't. And and right

now as a as a woman running an empire

>> Oh, it's that's not an empire.

>> I know [laughter] it's an empire.

>> Let's start call I want to call more

women geniuses and I want to call more

um female business owners. I want to

call more female run businesses empires.

Empires are not just for men.

>> Well, I I just I think of an empire as

having a thousand employees. I have two.

>> You only have two employees [laughter]

>> actually and a part-time part-time

office manager.

>> Yeah. I want to talk to you about this.

This is incredible [laughter]

because you've scaled down.

>> I just I want to walk across the lawn to

the barn where I have people that I love

and I want to cook all day. Did Did Tina

ever tell you how she interviewed me at

the Brooklyn Academy of Music? No. Tell

me about that.

>> So, she she started and she said, "You

know, my friends think you have this

perfect life. You get up in the morning,

you walk across the lawn, you cook all

day, your friends come to come by to

visit you, you go out for dinner, your

husband leaves on Monday, he comes back

on Friday. [laughter]

And and then she said, and I told told

my husband I was I told my husband I was

going to um say this and he said, "You

know I'm going to be in the audience

when you say that, right?" [laughter]

And she was kind of right. That's really

what my life is like. It's just been

great. So are you looking to like you

were hustling so much in the you know I

worked you really hard

>> writing the memoir made me realize I

worked really hard. What did you learn

from your memoir that you didn't know

about yourself?

>> Well I my relationship to work like I

like I I think about it all the time.

I'm always like troubling it because I

get such esteem from work.

>> Like I get a ton of self-esteem from

work and I don't want to give that up. I

also get a lot of self-esteem from

parenting and being a and being a parent

to my kids. And like you, I feel like I

desperately need connection with people

and my friends. So all of those things

and a lot of connection comes from work.

>> But I don't know about you, but as I

look ahead, it's just an interesting

like what is our relationship to work to

what is enough to um you know what what

do we want to how do we want to shape

the the third act of our life?

>> And you are a life shaper. you you so

what do you see the last

>> I don't think that far ahead

>> you don't

>> I just think what do I want to do if if

I know what I want to do today

>> and by the end of the day I'm going to

decide what I'm going to do tomorrow

it's all I need to know it's kind of

like the my first book I thought my god

how am I going to write a book a whole

book and I thought okay I don't need to

know how to write a whole book all I

need to know is what recipe I'm going to

test today and then tomorrow I'll test

another recipe and somewhere along the

line at the end of the line I'm going to

have a book but it. I don't give myself

overwhelming projects. I give myself

manageable bites.

>> Yes, I relate to that. It's just taking

I I like to call it like, you know, like

this season, you know, like think about

it in c terms of seasons because the

idea of like the next year is going to

be fill in the blank. That's

overwhelming. But

>> it's overwhelming.

>> Winter season, we're going to work on

this and spring. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you know what? Um there's this great

expression and I I I'm embarrassed to

say I can't remember the name of who

said it.

>> I have a laptop. I can look it up.

>> JP Morgan, I think. I think it was JP

Morgan is go as far as you can see

and when you get there you'll be able to

see farther.

>> But if you if you map it from here to

there, you're going to limit yourself.

>> You need you map it as far as you can

see. And then when you get there, there

may be other options you wouldn't have

even thought of when you get there.

>> So just leave I just like to leave

myself open to what things come along

that was like, nope, not interested.

Nope, lose my number. [laughter] Wait a

minute. Wait a minute. That's kind of

interesting actually. Come back here.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's success.

Success is being able to decide to work.

>> A surprise. I mean, you don't want to do

the same thing over and over again.

>> Yeah. And when you were writing your

memoir, how did you how do you like to

write?

>> Never. [laughter]

>> No kidding. Isn't writing the worst?

It's the worst.

>> People are always like, "What are you

doing?" [laughter] I'm like, "Anything

but writing. I'm organizing my closets.

I'm I'm I'm making amends to all my

friends. [laughter] Whatever it takes to

not write." Okay. So, fast fast round.

Aa, are you ready? Okay.

>> Okay. Okay, here we go. Best way to cook

carrots

>> roasted with olive oil, salt, and

pepper.

>> And do you enjoy a feta on there?

>> I enjoy feta on anything.

>> I sometimes I put feta and honey on my

carrots.

>> Fabulous. Or balsamic vinegar. Syrupy

balsamic vinegar. So good. Because the

sweet carrots and the vinegar are good.

I like things that have an edge.

>> Yeah.

>> And vinegar do.

>> I love a vinegar. Me, too. Um Oh, Julia

would wanted me to ask you this. How do

you make She's been making some sorbet

and she It was very fancy. She, Speaking

of fancy, she had she had made sorbet

and then she scooped out a lemon and put

it back in the lemon. So cute.

>> Um but uh she found her sorbet wasn't as

creamy. She it was icy more than creamy.

Any tips?

>> Um

>> she said she made it with sugar, water.

>> Did she make it in an ice cream maker?

>> Great question.

>> Yeah, I don't know. Some some some

recipes have you just freeze it and and

like a um almost like a granita. Yeah.

And that's um that would be grainy. Yes.

But if you make it in an ice cream I I

am not an expert on

>> I know. I I don't I don't really love

desserts. Um make making them it's like

a whole other world. Okay. Favorite New

Yorker cartoon. We got that three.

>> Was that on your list?

>> Yes. Was on my list cuz I heard you love

New Yorker cartoons but you bring it up.

>> Oh my god.

>> Can I tell you my other favorite ones?

Yes please.

>> Dog sitting at the bar and the bartender

walks over and he said, "What can I get

you?" He said, "I'll take a scotch and

toilet water." [laughter]

>> Do you cook on Thanksgiving?

>> Yes, I love Thanksgiving.

>> Me, too.

>> It's just it's the like the best holiday

because it's traditional things. You can

make them better. Um and yeah, I love

Thanksgiving.

>> What's your new like what's something

you make on Thanksgiving that people

would be surprised is at your table?

Like is there like you know uh like huh

that on Thanksgiving?

>> Well, you know a couple of years ago the

New York Times asked me to do a

storebought Thanksgiving and I thought

who could ever do that? So I I said I

don't think so. And then I started

thinking about it and I realized that if

you could take a storebought ingredient

from the store and make it easier,

wouldn't wouldn't that be fabulous? M.

[gasps]

>> So, I went and got Pepperage Farm

stuffing mix

>> and I made a bread pudding out of it,

>> which was so good. It was crazy.

>> So, I have a lot of Thanksgiving things

now, like to get um like you can get you

can actually get good mashed potatoes,

>> but then I add sour cream and parmesan

cheese and garlic and it's just

delicious and you have no idea that

there's a store-bought ingredient in

there.

>> Okay. Young chefs or food writers that

you're into? I mean, I have a few people

like Aaron French from Lost Kitchen. I

love her. Um, so you know, like the

other day she sent out a recipe. I'm

like, "Oh, I'm making that." Yeah. But I

don't I don't really What did you What

did she send out?

>> It was something that was great. Now I

can't remember.

>> Do you ever watch Tik Tok or Instagram

reels or any of the young people that

are cooking on there?

>> Tik Tok? No. Instagram I love. Yeah. And

um I just think, you know, if you're

interested in gardens, you know, you see

a lot of stuff on gardens. Um, you have

to be careful about not watching cute

puppy things because that's all you ever

get. [laughter]

>> Do you ever see all those like this like

version of the macho guy who's like in

the woods and cuts the meat and puts

[laughter] it on the grill?

>> What are you watching?

>> Come on over to my FYP. Aa

um profiles different from mine.

[laughter]

>> We don't all have a Jeffrey. I know. We

don't all have a Jeffrey. um secret

ingredient that makes things better.

>> Oh, it's always something with an edge

like balsamic vinegar or parmesan cheese

or um dijon mustard. Um things that um a

splash of red wine in a big pot of

lentils. Um it just changes everything.

>> Yes. Anything.

>> Lemon zest.

>> Lemon zest.

>> Yeah.

>> Um when you That's the other thing is

it's really I I learned when I started

cooking later. Um two things. One is,

you know, sometimes my anxiety needed to

go somewhere. [laughter] You know,

sometimes it just needs to land like in

your day, right? You have to you're

making a list of what you have to do for

your kids or do for your work or

whatever. And I found like thinking

about what I was going to make was a

really nice way to put my anxiety

>> to to sleep for a while because you know

what it is? The thing about Jeffrey

always say this about me,

>> cooking is hard and if it weren't hard,

I wouldn't be interested in it.

>> It's the challenge. Yes.

>> And if you're doing something that's

really hard, you just put everything

else out of your mind. And I think

that's one of the things I love about

cooking. I mean, when I start when I

invite people over, I'm like, "Oh, this

is going to be so much fun." And they're

like, and then I'm I'm like, "Why

[laughter] did I invite you?"

>> Oh my god. Everybody relates to that.

Everybody relates to that like very

relaxed oh

>> feeling. [laughter]

Um, and and I just want to say you

brought up a lemon zest and I'm I will

say that for people who are learning how

to cook, I would say reward yourself

with a tool,

>> a zestester

>> because when I got a zestester, I was

like, "Look at me."

>> Yeah.

>> Look at me with a zestester. I was like,

and and I would just take it out and

you're just like, "Look at this."

Because, you know, sometimes we need a

little treat at the end of our learning.

[laughter] And get yourself a zestester.

Um,

>> and don't keep it forever.

>> Oh, really? Yeah. They don't You can't

sharpen it like a knife.

>> Oh, right.

>> After a couple of years, get a new one.

>> Throw it throw it right in the ocean.

[laughter] Um, okay. Okay. Anything you

refuse to cook,

>> like anything you're like, "No."

>> So funny. We were just talking about

this the other day. I was with a friend

and and we were talking about what our

mothers used to make. It was like Monday

was one thing, Tuesday was something

else. Tongue. [laughter]

>> That's a tough one. tongue was on her

list and liver and onions was on her

list.

>> Never need to cook either one of them.

But also things that are really

complicated like you know I don't know

there's [snorts]

>> I mean I you like buzz a really good

buzz takes forever and so

>> I don't know what a booya base actually

is.

>> It's it's a fish stew.

>> Okay. So

>> which I heard Jeffrey doesn't like.

>> No, no, no. I made I made a fish stew.

It was the only thing I ever made that

he didn't like. It was terrible. But

>> that but that's not considered a booya

base.

>> It wasn't a buzz. A good bu we literally

cooks for days, you know, the bones and

the heads and the stock and all that

stuff.

>> I mean the idea of like making your own

stock to me is I mean that's just like a

level of there's just certain levels

where you think like maybe someday I'll

I'll do that.

>> You're you're going to come come visit

me. Oh yeah.

>> And we're going to make chicken stock

and you won't believe how easy it is.

And what an incredible difference it

makes. You take a big pot and you put

like 10 things in it and you cook it for

four hours.

>> I love something that you can cook

forever and forget it. Just set a timer.

I leave the house. I come back. It's

fine.

>> That was the thing about why everyone

got into sourdough during the co is cuz

everyone was like it takes three days

[laughter] and everyone was like I need

something.

>> That's exactly what I don't want.

>> Do bay leaves do anything or is this

some kind of conspiracy?

>> It was so funny. Um David Remnick at the

New Yorker and I had a long conversation

about this beats me. [laughter]

>> You're not ready to

>> My guess is that um fresh bay leaves can

make a difference. There's like an

undertone that you can taste bay leaves

that have been in your spice drawer for

40 years. I don't think so.

>> And also fresh bay leaves like that's

one needs to plan ahead for weeks

[laughter] to like like when you see a

thing that says fresh bay leaves it's

like I'm out. I mean, actually, it's

true. Like, sometimes in recipes, you'll

be chugging along and then you see

something you're like, you know what?

I'm out.

>> Yeah.

>> I just can't do it. I just can't get

fresh

>> baileies. That's why when I'm writing a

recipe, I always say to myself, um, is

somebody when I'm doing a book, is

somebody going to look at the photograph

and go, "That looks delicious." Look at

the recipe and go, I actually can find

all those ingredients in the grocery

store and it's simple enough for me to

make. And that was like from my first

book to the one I'm working on now. It

has to be all those things.

>> It has to be. If you see, you know, like

you see um an ingredient you've never

heard of before, is that like an alcohol

or is that like a spice? I have no idea.

>> Absolutely. And then you also have that

ingredient in your in your cupboard for

years to come and it mocks you.

[laughter]

>> You're like, "Why did I buy Zitar? I'm

never going to use this again."

>> That's exactly the spice I was thinking

of. [laughter]

>> Come see our Zitar comedy. Yeah. I was

like, I'm never going to use this again.

And it I see it every time I open the

thing. Okay. And then the last question

is um and apologies for my language, but

um have you heard did you watch the

white lotus?

>> I'm not all well there's this term

that's happening right now like where

she has a bob [laughter]

>> and you sorry

I'm I apologize but um you've had a bob

for a very long time. You have great

hair.

>> Thank you. And um you have a very sharp

you it's it's gone different lengths of

course in in life a little bit. But what

do you enjoy about having a bob? And do

you are you aware that you're very on

trend? [laughter]

>> Very on trend. I am. Oh no. I have no

idea.

>> Everyone's getting a bob.

>> Do you know when I first got that

haircut I was 25 years old. I lived in

Washington. I had hair all the way down

my back and um I had heard a friend of

mine went to a salon in the Watergate.

Um, [clears throat]

and it it was run by a man, Silva Malu,

who had just come to the United States,

and she had she had a bob. And I went

right to him and I had him cut my hair

like that. And, you know, I've never

changed it.

>> It's been the same haircut [laughter]

since I was 25. I've tried a few, every

once in a while, I try something else

and go, "No, I'm going right back to

where I started."

>> It's a perfect bo. But now, I mean,

everyone is going for it. Like,

>> it's so funny. [laughter] Every every

every Jenzer is cutting their hair and

also, you know, it's like feeling very

brave while they do it. [laughter]

>> Well, you have a bob, right? Looks

great.

>> I mean, I kind of I'm at the point where

my hair just kind of cuts itself. Like

it just [laughter] doesn't really it

doesn't really grow that long.

>> Oh, that's really interesting. You know,

the French always say that if your hair

is short, it shows your ensemble better.

>> That if your hair is long, it it it's

not the the right profile. How much time

do you spend in France?

>> As much as possible.

>> Yes. And do you speak French?

>> Badly.

>> Enough to enough to

deal with the green grosser.

>> Oh, you do? Okay. And they'll And

they'll speak it back to you.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.

>> Did you take lessons? Uh,

>> no.

>> Just from being there.

>> I mean, from high school from high

school French.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Do you uh

>> I dream that someday I'm going to live

there and full-time and go to Berettes,

but it hasn't happened yet.

Well, you never know. You never know cuz

I know the one thing I've learned is

like

>> there's just the sky's is the limit. I

mean, and I feel like that is really

like the the theme of um a lot of what

we talked about today is just that there

is um there there's no reason why

there's no there's no timeline as to

when things are supposed to happen in

your life. You get married really early,

you start your business later, you're

writing a memoir at this age. There's

like there's all these different ways in

which you're just deciding what you want

to do next. And like you're the

architect of your own life, basically.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And do it now.

>> Don't wait.

>> Yeah.

>> I think a lot of people say, well, you

know, first I'm going to do this and

then I'm going to do what I really want

to do. Do what you really want to do

now.

>> I know. Thank you so much for the

presents, for the strawberries, for the

procco, for the fake chicken. I'm I

[laughter] feel like lousy with gifts.

>> Someday I'll make you a real chicken.

>> I can't wait.

>> Thank you so much for coming. It really

meant so much. It was really fun.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you so much, AA. That was so

great. What a great conversation and I

loved um talking to you and you know uh

I hope that this episode gets you

hungry. Um I know it did me and it and

it made me think about all the stuff I

want to go home and cook. And so for

this Polar Plunge, I just wanted to

share something that I like to cook. Um

my recipe, kind of a go-to recipe that I

do a lot, which is just a very kind of

simple chicken curry. I get chicken

breasts with bone in chicken breasts.

And I um I put it in a a pot with some

rice, chicken stock, bunch of curry,

coconut milk. Sometimes I'll throw in

some chickpeas, throw in some parsley,

make it look green, put it in the oven,

uh, slow cook it, and that that shit's

amazing.

Okay, you look like a million dollars.

You can, you know, you want to brown the

chicken first, right? You want to brown

it in a pan first. Then you put it in

with the uncooked rice. You put whatever

it is, two two cups of rice to whatever

it is, three cups of chicken stock. Put

some coconut milk in. Put it in. Tons of

curry. Put it in the oven. 375 for like

an hour. Keep checking it. Stirring the

rice if you need to. You take it out.

You put it on the table. People think

you're a genius.

You can serve it from the pot. You can

serve the rice. Take the chicken. And

Bob's your uncle. So that's my chicken

curry. You can tell how I don't have a

cooking show because I'm not great at

explaining it. But you get it. You get

it. You can do it. I believe in you.

[laughter]

All right. Thanks everyone for

listening. Bye.

>> You've [music] been listening to Good

Hang. The executive producers for this

show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss

Berman, and me, Amy Polar. The show is

produced by The Ringer [music] and

Paperkite. For The Ringer, production by

Jack Wilson, Cat Spelain, Kaia McMullen,

and Aia Xanerys. For [music] Paperkite,

production by Sam Green, Joel Levelvel,

and Jenna Weiss Berman. Original music

by Amy Miles.

All the hate.